[oXygen-user] Going from FrameMaker to oXygen / Outline View / Text duplicates

Oxygen XML Editor Support (Radu Coravu) support at oxygenxml.com
Mon Jan 9 23:51:43 CST 2023


Hi Frank,


I added an internal issue to consider adding a new setting based on what 
you want:


     EXM-52156 Outline - Setting to avoid showing text of element on 
ancestor element


The purpose of the current behavior is to make it easier to figure out 
what text content is inside a certain node hierarchy without the need to 
expand nodes. So in this case I know what text is inside the <info> 
element's structure without expanding it.


Regards,

Radu

Radu Coravu
Oxygen XML Editor


On 1/9/23 18:47, Frank Dissinger wrote:
>
> Hi Jang,
>
>
> Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing:
>
>
> Current behavior:
>
> What I want is this:
>
>
>
> I see no point in the current behavior. Why are empty elements marked 
> as "filled" elements in oXygen?
>
>
> *@SyncroSoft*
>
> Feature request : Can the current behavior of the Outline view be 
> changed to show empty elements as empty?
>
>
> If the current behavior is required (for whichever reason...), I 
> understand that I'd need to implement DITA contstraints. Can you be 
> more specific about that? How would I do this with oXygen?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Frank
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Am 09.01.2023 um 11:27 schrieb 4everJang:
>> Hello Frank,
>>
>> About the last point in your missing features list: the DITA specs 
>> allow plain text as well as block elements like <p> inside an <li>. 
>> If you create constraints that disallow plain text (and inline 
>> elements) in the <li> you should get rid of the extra Text indicators 
>> in oXygen’s author view.
>>
>> And I do suggest everyone to create constraints before starting to 
>> work with DITA, as the definitions in the so-called standard DITA 
>> packages allows almost everything and is not meant to be a useful 
>> subset of elements for anyone’s specific content domain. The first 
>> step in any useful DITA implementation is defining constraints and 
>> possibly specialisations. I often get the reply from newbie DITA 
>> users that they want to stick with standard DITA. Fact is that 
>> constraints, and even specialisations, do not take you away from the 
>> standard. DITA was intended to be customised, i.e. adapted to your 
>> particular content domain, so that it will become as useful as 
>> possible - without pushing you out of the standard. Any DITA tool 
>> should support constraints and specialisations (as long as you create 
>> them in the defined manner), otherwise they cannot claim to be DITA 
>> compliant at all.
>>
>> Good luck with the transition from FM to oXygen.
>>
>> *4everJang*
>> *Amsterdam, Netherlands*
>>
>> On 9 Jan 2023, 10:37 +0100, Frank Dissinger 
>> <frank.dissinger at cgs-oris.com>, wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Alan,
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply. I fully agree with what you wrote about 
>>> FM's Structure View. An excellent tool.
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be great if oXygen could enhance its Outline View and make 
>>> it work in a similar way. I am especially missing the following 
>>> features:
>>>
>>>   * Allow users to place the cursor between tags, or at the
>>>     beginning/end of the element contents, and indicate the position
>>>   * Display attributes: Toggle between all/all with a value/none (no
>>>     need to waste room on the screen for a separate Attributes window)
>>>   * Expand/collapse complete tree of elements or attributes in one
>>>     go (Shift-click)
>>>   * Element content should not be repeated for empty wrapping
>>>     elements, this is confusing (show it only once)
>>>     For exmaple, for <li><p>Text..., the "Text" is shown both for
>>>     <li> and <p>. It should only be shown for <p>.
>>>
>>> Can I add this as feature request?
>>>
>>>
>>> I have now switched to the oXygen Users Mailing List and will post 
>>> any further oXygen-related issues there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Am 04.01.2023 um 22:05 schrieb Alan Houser:
>>>> Chiming in a bit late here. Longtime structured FrameMaker and 
>>>> oXygen user...
>>>>
>>>> *Frank mentions the FrameMaker structure view. IMO, this is the 
>>>> best and most distinctive part of the FrameMaker structured 
>>>> authoring interface. Easy access to any part of the document. 
>>>> Expand/collapse at any level of the document hierarchy; locally or 
>>>> globally (e.g. expand/collapse "this" section; expand/collapse all 
>>>> sections). Full navigation capabilities. Visual feedback (and 
>>>> shortcut control) over cursor location -- beginning, middle, or end 
>>>> of an element. Configurable and interactive attribute display.*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *While most XML editors provide some sort of outline view, I've 
>>>> never seen one as full-featured and useful as the FrameMaker 
>>>> structure view.*
>>>>
>>>> I occasionally use the oXygen Outline View for quick navigation in 
>>>> larger XML documents. And the "folding" feature in the edit window 
>>>> to expand/collapse content. But these don't fully replace what one 
>>>> can do with the FrameMaker structure view.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find that oXygen provides more and different 
>>>> features than Structured FrameMaker, many of which you will come to 
>>>> appreciate. I suggest (as you are doing) learning how to be most 
>>>> productive with the oXygen features and workflow. And be prepared 
>>>> to miss the FrameMaker structure view. 🙁
>>>>
>>>> -Alan
>>>> -- 
>>>> Alan Houser
>>>> Group Wellesley, Inc.
>>>> Consultant and Trainer, Technical Publishing
>>>> arh on Twitter
>>>> 412-450-0532
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Frank Dissinger 
>>>>> <frank.dissinger at cgs-oris.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Chris
>>>>>     Radu
>>>>>     Stefan
>>>>>     Thomas
>>>>>     Yves
>>>>>
>>>>> for your replies, this valuable information and for offering me 
>>>>> your help.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have already made some initial progress. I have successfully 
>>>>> created a custom framework with my own CSS file and are getting my 
>>>>> topic editor window panel look more and more the way I like (using 
>>>>> the 'print-ready' display style).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll try to dig a bit deeper into this matter and will collect the 
>>>>> questions and issues as I get on with this. I'll then come back to 
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Am 06.12.2022 um 17:42 schrieb Frank Dissinger:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there any passionate long-term structured FrameMaker users 
>>>>>> who have changed to oXygen as a DITA editor? Has anybody tried to 
>>>>>> set up the oXygen authoring environment as close as possible to 
>>>>>> FrameMaker's WYSIWYG view? Or at least in a way that makes the 
>>>>>> switch as painless as possible for a FrameMaker user?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been using FrameMaker V11+DITA-FMx as a DITA editor for many 
>>>>>> years -- until recently also as a PDF transformation engine, 
>>>>>> which I have now replaced with MiramoPDF. I have used oXygen for 
>>>>>> a few years only and mostly as a transformation engine. With FM I 
>>>>>> am stuck with an old DITA implementation and the DITA-FMx plug-in 
>>>>>> is not developed any further. This is why I would like to use 
>>>>>> oXygen as a DITA editor instead. But I find it very hard to make 
>>>>>> the switch: The way DITA maps, topics, tags, structures... are 
>>>>>> presented is so different and I haven't the time to learn oXygen 
>>>>>> properly and in full detail. It's such a powerful tool with tons 
>>>>>> of features. So I thought there may be someone who can help me 
>>>>>> getting started -- at least with setting up the user interface 
>>>>>> and authoring environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A few examples of things I am struggling with right away when I 
>>>>>> look at how oXygen presents my DITA files:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   * It seems that a DITA map loads all the referenced submaps and
>>>>>>     displays all of these maps in a single window panel (as if
>>>>>>     this was a single file). In FM I see only the references and
>>>>>>     open the submaps as separate files by double-clicking on them.
>>>>>>   * I feel lost in these maps. There are lots of big fonts,
>>>>>>     frames, colored backgrounds, icons... Can I customize the
>>>>>>     appearance? For example, by defining CSS-like styles for the
>>>>>>     DITA elements displayed on the screen?
>>>>>>   * The Outline view is a bit similar to FM's Structure View. But
>>>>>>     I am used to setting the cursor into the Structure View to
>>>>>>     precisely define the point where to insert an element. This
>>>>>>     does not work in oXygen.
>>>>>>   * I'd like to see text and images without any tags in one
>>>>>>     window panel and the DITA structure with elements and
>>>>>>     attributes in a separate panel. I know I can switch off tags
>>>>>>     and use the Outline view, but I am not sure if this really
>>>>>>     gives me full control over everything...
>>>>>>   * How does oXygen visualize conditionalized content
>>>>>>     (included/excluded via a ditaval file)?
>>>>>>   * Can I define a fixed page size in oXygen? I'd like to set a
>>>>>>     page width (height is not important) to make sure that images
>>>>>>     fit on the page and that table columns are not too narrow (in
>>>>>>     PDF deliverables). Setting an image resolution is also important.
>>>>>>   * ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Frank Dissinger*
>>>>> Documentation Manager
>>>>> ....................................................................
>>>>> *CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH*
>>>>> *Email*frank.dissinger at cgs-oris.com|*Web*www.cgs-oris.com 
>>>>> <http://www.cgs-oris.com/>
>>>>> *Address*Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany
>>>>> *Phone*+49 6182 9626-27 |*Fax*+49 6182 9626-99
>>>>> *Commercial register*Offenbach, HRB no. 21495
>>>>> *Managing directors*Bernd Rückert, Christoph Thommessen
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png 
>>>>> <https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Frank Dissinger*
>>>>
>>>> Documentation Manager
>>>>
>>>> ....................................................................
>>>>
>>>> *CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH*
>>>>
>>>> *Email* frank.dissinger at cgs-oris.com | *Web* www.cgs-oris.com 
>>>> <http://www.cgs-oris.com/>
>>>>
>>>> *Address* Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany
>>>>
>>>> *Phone* +49 6182 9626-27 | *Fax* +49 6182 9626-99
>>>>
>>>> *Commercial register* Offenbach, HRB no. 21495
>>>>
>>>> *Managing directors* Bernd Rückert, Christoph Thommessen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png 
>>>> <https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur>
>> _._,_._,_
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> -- 
>
> *Frank Dissinger*
>
> Documentation Manager
>
> ....................................................................
>
> *CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH*
>
> *Email *frank.dissinger at cgs-oris.com | *Web* www.cgs-oris.com 
> <http://www.cgs-oris.com/>
>
> *Address* Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany
>
> *Phone* +49 6182 9626-27 | *Fax* +49 6182 9626-99
>
> *Commercial register* Offenbach, HRB no. 21495
>
> *Managing directors* Bernd Rückert, Christoph Thommessen
>
>
> https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png <https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur>
>
> _______________________________________________
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