<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Hi Frank,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I added an internal issue to consider adding a new setting based
on what you want:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p> EXM-52156 Outline - Setting to avoid showing text of element
on ancestor element</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>The purpose of the current behavior is to make it easier to
figure out what text content is inside a certain node hierarchy
without the need to expand nodes. So in this case I know what text
is inside the <info> element's structure without expanding
it.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Radu</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Radu Coravu
Oxygen XML Editor</pre>
<p></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/9/23 18:47, Frank Dissinger wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:532681e1-bdff-483f-e56c-f8720a733f50@cgs-oris.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi Jang,<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing:<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Current behavior:<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.ZCUDeIOs.8FCQNd64@oxygenxml.com" alt=""
class=""></p>
<p>What I want is this:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part2.ZuKoF7PL.PYJr7r63@oxygenxml.com" alt=""
class=""></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I see no point in the current behavior. Why are empty elements
marked as "filled" elements in oXygen?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><b>@SyncroSoft</b><br>
</p>
<p>Feature request : Can the current behavior of the Outline view
be changed to show empty elements as empty?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If the current behavior is required (for whichever reason...),
I understand that I'd need to implement DITA contstraints. Can
you be more specific about that? How would I do this with
oXygen?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frank<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<hr width="100%" size="2">Am 09.01.2023 um 11:27 schrieb
4everJang:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2abae5f4-a5be-4b29-bf33-09263298c887@Spark">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">Hello
Frank,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">About the last point in
your missing features list: the DITA specs allow plain
text as well as block elements like <p> inside an
<li>. If you create constraints that disallow plain
text (and inline elements) in the <li> you should
get rid of the extra Text indicators in oXygen’s author
view.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">And I do suggest
everyone to create constraints before starting to work
with DITA, as the definitions in the so-called standard
DITA packages allows almost everything and is not meant to
be a useful subset of elements for anyone’s specific
content domain. The first step in any useful DITA
implementation is defining constraints and possibly
specialisations. I often get the reply from newbie DITA
users that they want to stick with standard DITA. Fact is
that constraints, and even specialisations, do not take
you away from the standard. DITA was intended to be
customised, i.e. adapted to your particular content
domain, so that it will become as useful as possible -
without pushing you out of the standard. Any DITA tool
should support constraints and specialisations (as long as
you create them in the defined manner), otherwise they
cannot claim to be DITA compliant at all.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">Good luck with the
transition from FM to oXygen.</span></div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
<font style="font-size: 16px;" face="AppleGothic, sans-serif"
color="#FF0000"><b>4everJang</b></font>
<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family: AppleGothic,
sans-serif; color: var(--textColor);"><font
color="#000000">Amsterdam, Netherlands</font></b><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On 9 Jan 2023, 10:37 +0100,
Frank Dissinger <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com></a>,
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-color: grey;
border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin:
5px 5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<p>Hi Alan,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply. I fully agree with what you
wrote about FM's Structure View. An excellent tool.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It would be great if oXygen could enhance its Outline
View and make it work in a similar way. I am especially
missing the following features:</p>
<ul>
<li>Allow users to place the cursor between tags, or at
the beginning/end of the element contents, and indicate
the position<br>
</li>
<li>Display attributes: Toggle between all/all with a
value/none (no need to waste room on the screen for a
separate Attributes window)<br>
</li>
<li>Expand/collapse complete tree of elements or
attributes in one go (Shift-click)</li>
<li>Element content should not be repeated for empty
wrapping elements, this is confusing (show it only once)<br>
For exmaple, for <li><p>Text..., the "Text"
is shown both for <li> and <p>. It should
only be shown for <p>.</li>
</ul>
<p>Can I add this as feature request?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I have now switched to the oXygen Users Mailing List and
will post any further oXygen-related issues there.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frank</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<hr width="100%" size="2"> Am 04.01.2023 um 22:05 schrieb
Alan Houser:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D32C0B4B-BA53-4F70-90F6-4CDED1769084@groupwellesley.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Chiming in a bit late here. Longtime structured FrameMaker
and oXygen user...
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Frank mentions the FrameMaker structure view. IMO,
this is the best and most distinctive part of the
FrameMaker structured authoring interface. Easy access
to any part of the document. Expand/collapse at any
level of the document hierarchy; locally or globally
(e.g. expand/collapse "this" section; expand/collapse
all sections). Full navigation capabilities. Visual
feedback (and shortcut control) over cursor location
-- beginning, middle, or end of an element.
Configurable and interactive attribute display.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>While most XML editors provide some sort of
outline view, I've never seen one as full-featured and
useful as the FrameMaker structure view.</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I occasionally use the oXygen Outline View for quick
navigation in larger XML documents. And the "folding"
feature in the edit window to expand/collapse content.
But these don't fully replace what one can do with the
FrameMaker structure view.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you will find that oXygen provides more and
different features than Structured FrameMaker, many of
which you will come to appreciate. I suggest (as you are
doing) learning how to be most productive with the
oXygen features and workflow. And be prepared to miss
the FrameMaker structure view. 🙁</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Alan</div>
<div>
<div>
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div>-- <br>
Alan Houser<br>
Group Wellesley, Inc.<br>
Consultant and Trainer, Technical Publishing<br>
arh on Twitter<br>
412-450-0532</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 8, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Frank Dissinger <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com></a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">Thank you,</div>
<blockquote style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0px;">Chris<br>
Radu<br>
Stefan<br>
Thomas<br>
Yves</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">for your replies,
this valuable information and for offering me
your help.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">I have already made
some initial progress. I have successfully
created a custom framework with my own CSS file
and are getting my topic editor window panel
look more and more the way I like (using the
'print-ready' display style).</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">I'll try to dig a
bit deeper into this matter and will collect the
questions and issues as I get on with this. I'll
then come back to you.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">Best regards,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">Frank</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">
<hr width="100%" size="2"> Am 06.12.2022 um
17:42 schrieb Frank Dissinger:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3432b6f4-c796-e848-893a-9c4b0a3ddbce@cgs-oris.com"
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;">
<div style="margin: 0px;">Hi all,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Are there any
passionate long-term structured FrameMaker
users who have changed to oXygen as a DITA
editor? Has anybody tried to set up the oXygen
authoring environment as close as possible to
FrameMaker's WYSIWYG view? Or at least in a
way that makes the switch as painless as
possible for a FrameMaker user?<br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">I've been using
FrameMaker V11+DITA-FMx as a DITA editor for
many years -- until recently also as a PDF
transformation engine, which I have now
replaced with MiramoPDF. I have used oXygen
for a few years only and mostly as a
transformation engine. With FM I am stuck with
an old DITA implementation and the DITA-FMx
plug-in is not developed any further. This is
why I would like to use oXygen as a DITA
editor instead. But I find it very hard to
make the switch: The way DITA maps, topics,
tags, structures... are presented is so
different and I haven't the time to learn
oXygen properly and in full detail. It's such
a powerful tool with tons of features. So I
thought there may be someone who can help me
getting started -- at least with setting up
the user interface and authoring environment.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">A few examples of
things I am struggling with right away when I
look at how oXygen presents my DITA files:<br>
</div>
<ul>
<li>It seems that a DITA map loads all the
referenced submaps and displays all of these
maps in a single window panel (as if this
was a single file). In FM I see only the
references and open the submaps as separate
files by double-clicking on them.</li>
<li>I feel lost in these maps. There are lots
of big fonts, frames, colored backgrounds,
icons... Can I customize the appearance? For
example, by defining CSS-like styles for the
DITA elements displayed on the screen?</li>
<li>The Outline view is a bit similar to FM's
Structure View. But I am used to setting the
cursor into the Structure View to precisely
define the point where to insert an element.
This does not work in oXygen.</li>
<li>I'd like to see text and images without
any tags in one window panel and the DITA
structure with elements and attributes in a
separate panel. I know I can switch off tags
and use the Outline view, but I am not sure
if this really gives me full control over
everything...<br>
</li>
<li>How does oXygen visualize conditionalized
content (included/excluded via a ditaval
file)?</li>
<li>Can I define a fixed page size in oXygen?
I'd like to set a page width (height is not
important) to make sure that images fit on
the page and that table columns are not too
narrow (in PDF deliverables). Setting an
image resolution is also important.</li>
<li>...<br>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Regards,<br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Frank<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature" style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;">--<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="signature" style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
rgb(127, 140, 141); padding-top: 0.4em;">
<div class="name" style="padding-bottom:
0.8em; padding-top: 0.8em;">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Frank
Dissinger</strong></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Documentation
Manager</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">....................................................................</div>
</div>
<div class="contact" style="padding-bottom:
0.8em;">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>CGS
Publishing Technologies International
GmbH</strong></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Email<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong><a
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com" target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
style="color: inherit;"
moz-do-not-send="true">frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>Web</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://www.cgs-oris.com/"
target="_blank" style="color:
inherit;" moz-do-not-send="true">www.cgs-oris.com</a></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Address</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kettelerstr.
24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Phone</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+49
6182 9626-27 |<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>Fax</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+49
6182 9626-99</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Commercial
register</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Offenbach,
HRB no. 21495</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Managing
directors</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bernd
Rückert, Christoph Thommessen</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<a
href="https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur"
style="color: inherit;"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
alt="https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png"
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moz-do-not-send="true" width="394"
height="200"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">--<br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-signature">
<style></style>
<div class="signature">
<div class="name">
<p><strong>Frank Dissinger</strong></p>
<p>Documentation Manager</p>
<p>....................................................................</p>
</div>
<div class="contact">
<p><strong>CGS Publishing Technologies
International GmbH</strong></p>
<p><strong>Email</strong> <a
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com</a>
| <strong>Web</strong> <a
href="http://www.cgs-oris.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.cgs-oris.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Address</strong> Kettelerstr. 24 |
D-63512 Hainburg | Germany</p>
<p><strong>Phone</strong> +49 6182 9626-27 | <strong>Fax</strong>
+49 6182 9626-99</p>
<p><strong>Commercial register</strong>
Offenbach, HRB no. 21495</p>
<p><strong>Managing directors</strong> Bernd
Rückert, Christoph Thommessen</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<a href="https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
alt="https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png"
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height="200"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
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