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RE: [xsl] Apply-templates - how to omit top level element tags?
Subject: RE: [xsl] Apply-templates - how to omit top level element tags? From: "Mike Schinkel" <mikes@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:19:18 -0400 |
>> XSL is fragile because you can break things by messing around? That's pretty much true of any complex system. You messed around with a stylesheet, did some things you didn't understand, and you got results you didn't understand. I'm at a complete loss what system wouldn't be fragile in your hands with this attitude. Some development systems are by design more resilient to change than others. For example, procedural languages that are type safe with variable scoping can be used to develop more robust complex systems than those that do not support typing or that only support global variables. Would you not agree with that? My comments, admittedly without suggesting an alternative, were simply saying that XSL is more like a language that is not type safe (fyi, 1.0 isn't) and that supports the equivalent of global variables in its push model which are inherently fragile. What I was implying while venting, but that I should have been explicit about, was that I think the designers of XSL should really make it so you can write more robust systems in XSL w/o requiring the use of other languages to enforce robustness. I have studied and used a lot of languages over my 20 years in computing, some only capable of building fragile systems if complex, and some capable of building robust systems if complex. For example, vbscript, visual basic 6, and vb.net are on a continuum of fragile to robust. dBase II was fragile, Clipper 5 was robust. Unfortunately, XSL is currently in the fragile category. >> I'm hoping the tone of this email isn't too negative. If you decide that you do want to use XSLT and you run into more problems, I hope you will return to the list. Really :). On the other hand though, it sounds like you really don't like it. I can't imagine why you'd want to stick with it then. Thanks for clarifying, it did feel negative earlier. :) It's not that I don't like XSLT, it's I want to see if get better. I have found over the years I have a unique gifts (actually it's a curse); I can almost always find areas where systems can be improved when many others think everything is fine. Over the years, areas where I felt things could improve have natually evolved to incorporate some of those improvements, so my experience tells me I have a pretty good eye for that kind of thing. For example, I was awarded "the most outstanding beta tester" for Clipper 5 because I found three times the issues that others found, many of which were design issues. Unfortunately, it usually leaves me "wanting" in whatever tool I use. So, please don't take my comments about XSLT as knocking it so much as me pleading to the powers that be to see it improved in those areas. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jon Gorman [mailto:jonathan.gorman@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:14 PM To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [xsl] Apply-templates - how to omit top level element tags? > Because I didn't know I had. Again, demonstrating the fragility of > XSL Errr. Ok. I've been ignoring that part of the thread because to tell the honest truth I don't see much point in what seems like a endless argument. But this statement is so outlandish I have to make a comment. XSL is fragile because you can break things by messing around? That's pretty much true of any complex system. You messed around with a stylesheet, did some things you didn't understand, and you got results you didn't understand. I'm at a complete loss what system wouldn't be fragile in your hands with this attitude. In any case, best of luck. I've been playing with XSLT mainly because of my interest in systems for publishing of documents. I've had systems when I started out that sound a lot like yours, and they were nightmares to maintain and work with. But I've already said as much. If you truly believe XSLT is so fragile, perhaps you would be better of researching XPath based apis and libraries, XQuery, or any similar system. I'm sure they are out there, and those would allow you to use the pull model without having to worry about templates. I'm hoping the tone of this email isn't too negative. If you decide that you do want to use XSLT and you run into more problems, I hope you will return to the list. Really :). On the other hand though, it sounds like you really don't like it. I can't imagine why you'd want to stick with it then. Jon Gorman
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