<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Hi Jang,<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing:<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Current behavior:<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.lJZr4irm.Q7i0ajkJ@cgs-oris.com" alt=""></p>
<p>What I want is this:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part2.oE5Mxj0z.xPnWXe3A@cgs-oris.com" alt=""></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I see no point in the current behavior. Why are empty elements
marked as "filled" elements in oXygen?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><b>@SyncroSoft</b><br>
</p>
<p>Feature request : Can the current behavior of the Outline view be
changed to show empty elements as empty?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If the current behavior is required (for whichever reason...), I
understand that I'd need to implement DITA contstraints. Can you
be more specific about that? How would I do this with oXygen?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frank<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<hr width="100%" size="2">Am 09.01.2023 um 11:27 schrieb
4everJang:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2abae5f4-a5be-4b29-bf33-09263298c887@Spark">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">Hello Frank,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">About the last point in
your missing features list: the DITA specs allow plain text
as well as block elements like <p> inside an
<li>. If you create constraints that disallow plain
text (and inline elements) in the <li> you should get
rid of the extra Text indicators in oXygen’s author view.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">And I do suggest everyone
to create constraints before starting to work with DITA, as
the definitions in the so-called standard DITA packages
allows almost everything and is not meant to be a useful
subset of elements for anyone’s specific content domain. The
first step in any useful DITA implementation is defining
constraints and possibly specialisations. I often get the
reply from newbie DITA users that they want to stick with
standard DITA. Fact is that constraints, and even
specialisations, do not take you away from the standard.
DITA was intended to be customised, i.e. adapted to your
particular content domain, so that it will become as useful
as possible - without pushing you out of the standard. Any
DITA tool should support constraints and specialisations (as
long as you create them in the defined manner), otherwise
they cannot claim to be DITA compliant at all.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica">Good luck with the
transition from FM to oXygen.</span></div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
<font style="font-size: 16px;" face="AppleGothic, sans-serif"
color="#FF0000"><b>4everJang</b></font>
<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family: AppleGothic, sans-serif;
color: var(--textColor);"><font color="#000000">Amsterdam,
Netherlands</font></b><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On 9 Jan 2023, 10:37 +0100, Frank
Dissinger <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"><frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com></a>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-color: grey;
border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px
5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<p>Hi Alan,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply. I fully agree with what you wrote
about FM's Structure View. An excellent tool.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It would be great if oXygen could enhance its Outline View
and make it work in a similar way. I am especially missing
the following features:</p>
<ul>
<li>Allow users to place the cursor between tags, or at the
beginning/end of the element contents, and indicate the
position<br>
</li>
<li>Display attributes: Toggle between all/all with a
value/none (no need to waste room on the screen for a
separate Attributes window)<br>
</li>
<li>Expand/collapse complete tree of elements or attributes
in one go (Shift-click)</li>
<li>Element content should not be repeated for empty
wrapping elements, this is confusing (show it only once)<br>
For exmaple, for <li><p>Text..., the "Text" is
shown both for <li> and <p>. It should only be
shown for <p>.</li>
</ul>
<p>Can I add this as feature request?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I have now switched to the oXygen Users Mailing List and
will post any further oXygen-related issues there.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Frank</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<hr width="100%" size="2">
Am 04.01.2023 um 22:05 schrieb Alan Houser:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D32C0B4B-BA53-4F70-90F6-4CDED1769084@groupwellesley.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Chiming in a bit late here. Longtime structured FrameMaker
and oXygen user...
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Frank mentions the FrameMaker structure view. IMO,
this is the best and most distinctive part of the
FrameMaker structured authoring interface. Easy access
to any part of the document. Expand/collapse at any
level of the document hierarchy; locally or globally
(e.g. expand/collapse "this" section; expand/collapse
all sections). Full navigation capabilities. Visual
feedback (and shortcut control) over cursor location --
beginning, middle, or end of an element. Configurable
and interactive attribute display.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>While most XML editors provide some sort of outline
view, I've never seen one as full-featured and useful as
the FrameMaker structure view.</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I occasionally use the oXygen Outline View for quick
navigation in larger XML documents. And the "folding"
feature in the edit window to expand/collapse content. But
these don't fully replace what one can do with the
FrameMaker structure view.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you will find that oXygen provides more and
different features than Structured FrameMaker, many of
which you will come to appreciate. I suggest (as you are
doing) learning how to be most productive with the oXygen
features and workflow. And be prepared to miss the
FrameMaker structure view. 🙁</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Alan</div>
<div>
<div>
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div>-- <br>
Alan Houser<br>
Group Wellesley, Inc.<br>
Consultant and Trainer, Technical Publishing<br>
arh on Twitter<br>
412-450-0532</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 8, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Frank Dissinger <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com></a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">Thank you,</div>
<blockquote style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0px;">Chris<br>
Radu<br>
Stefan<br>
Thomas<br>
Yves</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">for your replies, this
valuable information and for offering me your
help.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">I have already made some
initial progress. I have successfully created a
custom framework with my own CSS file and are
getting my topic editor window panel look more and
more the way I like (using the 'print-ready'
display style).</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">I'll try to dig a bit
deeper into this matter and will collect the
questions and issues as I get on with this. I'll
then come back to you.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">Best regards,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">Frank</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">
<hr width="100%" size="2">
Am 06.12.2022 um 17:42 schrieb Frank Dissinger:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3432b6f4-c796-e848-893a-9c4b0a3ddbce@cgs-oris.com"
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0px;">Hi all,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Are there any passionate
long-term structured FrameMaker users who have
changed to oXygen as a DITA editor? Has anybody
tried to set up the oXygen authoring environment
as close as possible to FrameMaker's WYSIWYG
view? Or at least in a way that makes the switch
as painless as possible for a FrameMaker user?<br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">I've been using
FrameMaker V11+DITA-FMx as a DITA editor for
many years -- until recently also as a PDF
transformation engine, which I have now replaced
with MiramoPDF. I have used oXygen for a few
years only and mostly as a transformation
engine. With FM I am stuck with an old DITA
implementation and the DITA-FMx plug-in is not
developed any further. This is why I would like
to use oXygen as a DITA editor instead. But I
find it very hard to make the switch: The way
DITA maps, topics, tags, structures... are
presented is so different and I haven't the time
to learn oXygen properly and in full detail.
It's such a powerful tool with tons of features.
So I thought there may be someone who can help
me getting started -- at least with setting up
the user interface and authoring environment.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">A few examples of things
I am struggling with right away when I look at
how oXygen presents my DITA files:<br>
</div>
<ul>
<li>It seems that a DITA map loads all the
referenced submaps and displays all of these
maps in a single window panel (as if this was
a single file). In FM I see only the
references and open the submaps as separate
files by double-clicking on them.</li>
<li>I feel lost in these maps. There are lots of
big fonts, frames, colored backgrounds,
icons... Can I customize the appearance? For
example, by defining CSS-like styles for the
DITA elements displayed on the screen?</li>
<li>The Outline view is a bit similar to FM's
Structure View. But I am used to setting the
cursor into the Structure View to precisely
define the point where to insert an element.
This does not work in oXygen.</li>
<li>I'd like to see text and images without any
tags in one window panel and the DITA
structure with elements and attributes in a
separate panel. I know I can switch off tags
and use the Outline view, but I am not sure if
this really gives me full control over
everything...<br>
</li>
<li>How does oXygen visualize conditionalized
content (included/excluded via a ditaval
file)?</li>
<li>Can I define a fixed page size in oXygen?
I'd like to set a page width (height is not
important) to make sure that images fit on the
page and that table columns are not too narrow
(in PDF deliverables). Setting an image
resolution is also important.</li>
<li>...<br>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Regards,<br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Frank<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature" style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">--<span
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<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="signature" style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
rgb(127, 140, 141); padding-top: 0.4em;">
<div class="name" style="padding-bottom:
0.8em; padding-top: 0.8em;">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Frank
Dissinger</strong></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">Documentation
Manager</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;">....................................................................</div>
</div>
<div class="contact" style="padding-bottom:
0.8em;">
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>CGS
Publishing Technologies International
GmbH</strong></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Email<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong><a
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com" target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
style="color: inherit;"
moz-do-not-send="true">frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>Web</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://www.cgs-oris.com/"
target="_blank" style="color: inherit;"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.cgs-oris.com</a></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Address</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kettelerstr.
24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Phone</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+49
6182 9626-27 |<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>Fax</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+49
6182 9626-99</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Commercial
register</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Offenbach,
HRB no. 21495</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><strong>Managing
directors</strong><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bernd
Rückert, Christoph Thommessen</div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</div>
<a href="https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur"
style="color: inherit;"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
alt="https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png"
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-signature">
<style></style>
<div class="signature">
<div class="name">
<p><strong>Frank Dissinger</strong></p>
<p>Documentation Manager</p>
<p>....................................................................</p>
</div>
<div class="contact">
<p><strong>CGS Publishing Technologies
International GmbH</strong></p>
<p><strong>Email</strong> <a
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com</a>
| <strong>Web</strong> <a
href="http://www.cgs-oris.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.cgs-oris.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Address</strong> Kettelerstr. 24 |
D-63512 Hainburg | Germany</p>
<p><strong>Phone</strong> +49 6182 9626-27 | <strong>Fax</strong>
+49 6182 9626-99</p>
<p><strong>Commercial register</strong>
Offenbach, HRB no. 21495</p>
<p><strong>Managing directors</strong> Bernd
Rückert, Christoph Thommessen</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<a href="https://www.cgs-oris.com/signatur"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
alt="https://www.cgs-oris.com/Signatur.png"
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<p>....................................................................</p>
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<div class="contact">
<p><strong>CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH</strong></p>
<p><strong>Email </strong><a
href="mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com"
target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com</a>
| <strong>Web</strong> <a
href="http://www.cgs-oris.com/" target="_blank">www.cgs-oris.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Address</strong> Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512
Hainburg | Germany</p>
<p><strong>Phone</strong> +49 6182 9626-27 | <strong>Fax</strong>
+49 6182 9626-99</p>
<p><strong>Commercial register</strong> Offenbach, HRB no.
21495</p>
<p><strong>Managing directors</strong> Bernd Rückert,
Christoph Thommessen</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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