Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby gwhite » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:26 am

I'm exploring use of the learning and training specialization elements included in DITA OT 1.2, but I've been frustrated by unexpected behaviors when I try using these in Oxygen, and by a general lack of information here or on the usual DITA user forums.

It seems that using Interactions domain elements I should be able to generate xhtml (WebHelp) that allows a user to click on a set of possible answers to quiz questions that should provide instant feedback. Instead, whether in PDF (where it obviously should not work) or in WebHelp (where it theoretically should), the questions and accompanying feedback elements simply display with no interactivity. What is a good resource for details on how to set up these sorts of interactions?

Also, some learning and training elements do not display at all in WebHelp (the lcTime sub-element for Duration in learning content overview topics, for example).

I guess my primary question would be, where in oXygen or the DITA-OT are characteristics of these learning specialization topics/elements controlled and where can I learn more about how to implement them?

Thanks,

Gary
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby Radu » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:20 pm

Hi Gary,

Oxygen uses the DTDs/schemas provided by the DITA 1.2 specification for editing Learning specialization topics. It also uses the DITA Open Toolkit to publish the content to various output sources.

I cannot help you much in this regard because we are not using the Learning specializations internally. And there do not seem to be a lot of people who do, searching around (or asking questions on) the DITA Users List might be a good place to start:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/29486

It seems that using Interactions domain elements I should be able to generate xhtml (WebHelp) that allows a user to click on a set of possible answers to quiz questions that should provide instant feedback. Instead, whether in PDF (where it obviously should not work) or in WebHelp (where it theoretically should), the questions and accompanying feedback elements simply display with no interactivity. What is a good resource for details on how to set up these sorts of interactions?


No, learning topics are not translated in interactive HTML form controls. This was not the intended purpose from what I saw in a previous discussion on the DITA Users List (cannot find the thread now).
Actually this is quite hard to do, where would that feedback be sent and how would you identify the person who sent it? You need a PHP script running on a server with a database in order to store that information. You need each user to authenticate.

Our WebHelp with Feedback transformation does something like this. Each published topic has a feedback area at the bottom which can be used by users to comment on the read topic.

Probably the DITA 1.2 specification is about the place to start (and maybe the only place to start):

http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/archSpec-learningTraining.html#archspec-learningtraining

Also, some learning and training elements do not display at all in WebHelp (the lcTime sub-element for Duration in learning content overview topics, for example).


The DITA Open Toolkit XSLT processing may not handle properly all the Learning specialization elements.
Actually I added a bug for your problem about a year ago:
https://github.com/dita-ot/dita-ot/issues/655

The issue points to a more detailed discussion on the DITA Users List.

I guess my primary question would be, where in oXygen or the DITA-OT are characteristics of these learning specialization topics/elements controlled and where can I learn more about how to implement them?


The DITA Open Toolkit applies a series of XSLT stylesheets on the DITA content, stylesheets which can be potentially changed and improved to match what you need.

Regards,
Radu
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<oXygen/> XML Editor
http://www.oxygenxml.com
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby gwhite » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:10 pm

Thanks for your detailed reply, Radu. I may simply rethink using the specialization, because I'm not sure the value-add is that significant. Sounds as if others have reached a similar conclusion.

Gary
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby xephon » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:58 pm

Hi,

I am at the same point as Gary was 2 1/2 years ago. It seems to me, that nothing has changed. I'm trying to figure out, whether DITA/SCORM may be a valid technical basis for our E-learning plans. I searched for "SCORM" in this forum. The last post is older than 3 years. So it seams to me that no Oxygen users seem to write content for E-learning systems. Does anybody know if the DITA Learning and Training Content Specialization SC is still alive? Did anybody found an alternative solution for (re)using DITA content in an E-learning CMS?

Best regards
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby Radu » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:23 pm

Hi Stefan,

Out of the box Oxygen comes with the support the DITA Open Toolkit has for learning and training publishing, support which is not very much.
Eliot Kimber started working on a learning and training publishing plugin DITA OT plugin:

https://github.com/dita-community/org.dita.learning2.html

But I do not know how evolved it is.

I'm not sure if there are consultants who also have plugins for the Learning and Training output which they did not make open source. For example I think Comtech had some work done on this.
Maybe you could also write on the DITA Users List about this.

Regards,
Radu
Radu Coravu
<oXygen/> XML Editor
http://www.oxygenxml.com
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby xephon » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:32 pm

Hi Radu,

thanks for your input. I stop working on this, due to other prios. Maybe I'll come back to this next year.

Thanks a lot,
Stefan
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Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby pierat » Fri May 15, 2015 2:40 pm

One year and a half later, I re-explore these learning topics and their implementation.

Trying to use the lsDuration element I notice that :

  • only the label is output in the oxygen webhelp implementation
  • nothing is output in the standard XHTML implementation.

So, does this means that anyone should avoid to use learning contents because it is not really implemented in the OT ?

Are there effort, working group actually on the subject ?

How to solve properly this basic problem ?

Pierre

xephon wrote:Hi,

I am at the same point as Gary was 2 1/2 years ago. It seems to me, that nothing has changed. I'm trying to figure out, whether DITA/SCORM may be a valid technical basis for our E-learning plans. I searched for "SCORM" in this forum. The last post is older than 3 years. So it seams to me that no Oxygen users seem to write content for E-learning systems. Does anybody know if the DITA Learning and Training Content Specialization SC is still alive? Did anybody found an alternative solution for (re)using DITA content in an E-learning CMS?

Best regards
pierat
 
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Location: Paris, France

Re: Learning and training specialization topics/elements

Postby Radu » Mon May 18, 2015 8:41 am

Hi Pierre,

Indeed specific learning and training constructs are badly supported by the DITA OT in the published PDF and XHTML-based outputs.
Please see some more answers below:

So, does this means that anyone should avoid to use learning contents because it is not really implemented in the OT ?


Not necessarily, for example there are companies like Suite Solutions which have developed better DITA OT plugins for rendering learning and training. But they will probably charge you.
For example you can write on the DITA Users List and ask for this.

A free plugin for this would be Eliot Kimber's:

https://github.com/drmacro/org.dita.learning2.html

but it looked like work in progress last time I worked with it.

Are there effort, working group actually on the subject ?


You should ask around on the DITA Users List:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dita-users/info

Regards,
Radu
Radu Coravu
<oXygen/> XML Editor
http://www.oxygenxml.com
Radu
 
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